Before we even begin with this blog. My answer here is a simple NO.
But let’s start with a brief background of the Oliver Hazard Perry or OHP class frigate.
The OHP ships entered service as ASW frigates for the US Navy. They were ORIGINALLY equipped with an Mk13 missile launcher for the SM-1 and RGM-184 Harpoon missiles, an Oto melara 76mm Compact cannon, a Phalanx CIWS, and Mk32 launchers for Mk45 or Mk50 torpedoes. In addition, they had a hangar for two Seasprite or SH-60 Seahawk helicopters. The ships are equipped with a sensor suite consisting of an SPS-49 2D air search radar and a Mk92 fire control system, the sonar suite consists of the SQS-56 and the SQS-19 towed array.
An old picture of USS Oliver Hazard Perry with her Mk13 missile launcher for firing the SM-1 and RGM-184 Harpoon. The Mk13 launcher that made the Perry an FFG in the first place was however removed a few years back.
That’s how they were originally armed and equipped back in the day anyway. Here’s the thing, the only thing that made them an FFG in the day was REMOVED by the USN in 2003. The USN removed the Mk13 launchers from the Perry’s back in 2003 with the retirement of the SM-1 missile in USN service. Yes, these ships have no mesayls.
The Mk13 missile launcher. The one thing that made the OHP ships a guided missile frigate in USN service was removed in 2003.
So in retrospect, if we ever got an OHP it’d end up as an unstripped Hamilton.
But we should still get them, keep them in FFBNW config. like the Hams?
No. The sole reason is simple. Like all ships of the USN, the OHP is a gas guzzler, using two LM2500-30 gas turbines in COGAG configuration. In COGAG the gas turbine is used even at economic cruise speeds. The Perry’s are equipped with COGAG because there is no way in hell a ship weighing 4100 tons, carrying 40 missiles, a 76mm gun, torpedoes, a powerful (back then anyway) sensor suite and two ASW helicopters can dash 29 and above knots on a diesel engine. To give you a figure on how the COGAG configuration of the OHP compares to the CODOG configuration of the del Pilar, the total annual cost to keep a single Perry’s COGAG running is more than twice and nearly thrice what it costs to keep a del Pilar’s CODOG running.
The maintenance hungry, gas guzzling LM2500-30 engine employed in COGAG configuration on the Perry class frigates
Let’s face it, our budget-conscious Navy will never be able to maintain a Perry class frigate.
That’s the primary reason anyway why most disagree with getting a Perry for the PN. Why are we going to buy a gas guzzler that doesn’t even carry missiles?
Another thing, if any of you guys noted, the OHP’s 76mm gun is in the most oddball position imaginable, for one reason or another, the Perry’s 76mm gun is mounted amidships. Meaning that to fire off a shot from the 76mm, the ship has to manouevre rather awkwardly and expose its side to get a shot off like in that scene from the movie “The Hunt for Red October”.Sort of like an old WW1 era German Navy Moltke class battlecruiser. Or the majority of battleships and battlecruisers built during that era anyway. But let’s not stick to this issue, I believe it isn’t much of a problem anyway.
The real problem with the Perry class is not the ship itself. The real problem is the Philippine navy’s maintenance culture and shoestring budget. The shoestring budget is definitely not enough to keep operating a gas guzzler like a Perry. Another thing is our maintenance, we don’t exactly have the best history in terms of our maintenance culture, and our overly bureaucratic procurement process would delay any acquisition of parts to keep a Perry in the sea. At best, they’d see limited action in patrols. At worst, pier queens.
Overall, even if Uncle Sam would be willing to give us a Perry, which they have never done, mind you, all Perrys that were transferred to other navies were paid for. The latest is Taiwan paying 80 million dollars for a Perry class ship. At only 40 million dollars higher than that price, we could also get the missile-armed Maestrale from the scrapped Italian deal (which I will try to discuss in a future blog). So if you ask me, the Perry class frigate is NOT ideal for the PN.
Let the dreams of Perry class frigates for the PN rest people. These ships are simply not ideal for the Philippine Navy.
July 1, 2016 at 12:54 am
Nick, what’s your take on this?
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July 1, 2016 at 1:29 am
Here’s my take, if the Philippines grabbed at least 2 Perry class frigates. It would give then a Viable AAW Frigate with Area Air defense capability. Which is a key for the Philippines, to provide Area Air defense and protect their AirSpace. It would also be a Mobile Sea based Air Defense Battery. At the same time freeing up the Hamilton class cutters for ASUW work.
The Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates were designed primarily as anti-aircraft and anti-submarine warfare guided-missile warships intended to provide open-ocean escort of amphibious warfare ships and merchant ship convoys in moderate threat environments in a potential war with the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact countries. They could also provide air defense against 1970s- and 1980s-era aircraft and anti-ship missiles. These warships are equipped to escort and protect aircraft carrier battle groups, amphibious landing groups, underway replenishment groups, and merchant ship convoys. They can conduct independent operations to perform such tasks as surveillance of illegal drug smugglers, maritime interception operations, and exercises with other nations.
Now as far as arming them, Look towards Spain with their Santa María-class frigate, Australia’s Adelaide-class frigate, Taiwan’s Cheng Kung-class frigate and Turkey’s G-class frigate. Those countries were able to buy the Hull from the US and arm them with either indigenous or off the shelf systems from Europe or Israel. They even upgraded them as well.
In my opinion, I would take a combination of Taiwan’s Cheng Kung-class frigate and Turkey’s G-class frigate. That means arming them in a similar fashion to them with added that with Turkey’s G-class frigates, they installed an 8-cell Mk-41 VLS for Evolved Sea Sparrow but instead of Evolved Sea Sparrow, I would use the older RIM-7 sea sparrows that is being used on the Karel Doorman class frigate. If the Philippines are comfortable with the RIM-66 aka SM-1 MR, then they should make a grab for them as well. If the Philippines do decide to get the Perrys, they should look to Turkey’s G-class frigate as a template to build an Air defense frigate.
Which is why what the Philippines REALLY Need is an Air defense frigate that works in concert with the Air force so that they can alert the fighters to intruders and intrusion from china. Plus having an Area Air defense frigate can guard the Air space from the sea.
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July 1, 2016 at 1:35 am
Also, Look to Turkey on how they Modernized the perry class frigate they brought from the US.
The G-class frigates have undergone a major modernization program which included the retrofitting of a Turkish digital combat management system named GENESIS (Gemi Entegre Savaş İdare Sistemi). The system was designed and implemented jointly by the Turkish Navy and Havelsan, a Turkish electronic hardware systems and software company. The first GENESIS upgraded ship was delivered in 2007, and the last delivery is scheduled for 2011.
The GENESIS advanced combat management system includes the following characteristics and abilities:
A modern and reliable system
High performance
Open architecture
Capacity of tracking more than 1,000 tactical targets
Modern digital sensor data fusion
Automatic threat evaluation
Weapon engagement opportunities
Link-16/22 system integration
The modernization program also includes:
The addition of an 8-cell Mk-41 VLS for Evolved Sea Sparrow, including the upgrade of the Mk-92 fire control system by Lockheed Martin
The retrofitting of a new advanced SMART-S Mk2 3D air search radar to replace AN/SPS-49
The addition of a new long range sonar
The Mk-41 VLS will be fitted in front of the Mk.13 launchers, similar to their installation on the Adelaide-class frigates of the Royal Australian Navy, which are Australian-built derivatives of the Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates. TCG Gediz became the first ship in the class to receive the Mk 41 VLS installation.
The “short hull” ex-Perry class frigates that are currently being operated by the Turkish Navy were modified with the ASIST landing platform system at the Istanbul Naval Shipyard, so that they can accommodate the S-70B Seahawk helicopter.
As you can see Turkey brought the perry class hulls from America and Modernized them and turned them into an Area Air Defense Frigate and optimized them for general purpose but their primary role is Area Air defense. if it can work for Turkey, then it can work for the Philippines, provided they follow Turkey’s formula.
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July 1, 2016 at 1:43 am
Nick, the problem here is, the Perry’s would need an extensive upgrade
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July 1, 2016 at 1:49 am
If you do it the way Australia, Taiwan, Spain and Turkey did it. It would work out just fine. Even with Taiwan, when they modernized them, they added their own SAM, Torpedos and SSM. Along with New Radar and Combat Information systems.
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July 1, 2016 at 10:48 am
Nick, the barak 1 and RIM-7 are only good for self-defense, if we wanted an AAW frigate you could probably remove the old masts and replace them with an MF-STAR and place 48 cells for the Barak 8
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July 1, 2016 at 2:33 pm
Maybe go with the Evolved Sea Sparrow for the Perry’s
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July 1, 2016 at 2:41 pm
Nick, I prefer the CAMM Sea Ceptor over the RIM-162 ESSM as the Sea Ceptor is an active radar homing SAM and more can be guided to intercept a target than the semi-active radar homing ESSM
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July 1, 2016 at 2:52 pm
CAMM Sea Ceptor is great but RIM-162 has the longer range and punch.
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July 1, 2016 at 3:00 pm
Nick the 15km range advantage is pointless when we cannot guide enough ESSM’s to take out a saturation attack
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July 1, 2016 at 5:50 pm
The RIM-162 Evolved SeaSparrow Missile (ESSM) is a development of the RIM-7 Sea Sparrow missile used to protect ships from attacking missiles and aircraft. ESSM is designed to counter supersonic maneuvering anti-ship missiles. Such as go after China’s C-802, China’s YJ-12 and China’s CM-400AKG.
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July 1, 2016 at 11:54 pm
Nick, what I’m talking about is its SARH seekr, meaning that the FCR has to guide it all the way, making it only possible to guide missiles against 2-3 targets at a time
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July 2, 2016 at 12:38 am
Another option is the The RIM-156 Standard Block IV, which is used on the Burke DDG.
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July 2, 2016 at 12:42 am
Nick I believe only the SM-6 is ARH, the ESSM’s and SM-2’s are SARH
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July 2, 2016 at 12:49 am
Compared to the Sea Sparrow, ESSM has a larger, more powerful rocket motor for increased range and agility, as well as upgraded aerodynamics using strakes and skid-to-turn. In addition, ESSM takes advantage of the latest missile guidance technology, with different versions for Aegis/AN/SPY-1, Sewaco/APAR, and traditional target illumination all-the-way. ESSM Block II will leverage existing technology and features a dual-mode X-band seeker, increased maneuverability, and other enhancements. Unlike Block 1, Block 2’s active seeker will support terminal engagement without the launch ship’s target illumination radars. The improved ESSM Block II will be fielded by the US Navy from 2020
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July 2, 2016 at 1:11 am
The ESSM Blk2 is possible
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July 2, 2016 at 1:24 am
The reason the Philippines need RIM-7 or RIM- 162. China’s DF-21
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July 2, 2016 at 10:08 am
Nick it’s very unlikely that a RIM-7 or RIM-162 can shoot down the DF-21, you’d need the SM-3 or SM-6 or perhaps even just the SM-2
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July 2, 2016 at 4:02 pm
That’s why the DF-21 is the Philippines biggest threat and if they don’t have anything to counter that, ya are finished. That’s why an SM-2 is what the Philippines needs.
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July 3, 2016 at 10:32 am
or a second hand Patriot ABM system, or the Barak 8
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July 3, 2016 at 3:31 pm
I don’t think the US will give the Philippines any Patriot Missile system. They simply don’t trust the corrupt Generals, Admirals and politicians with US sensitive gear in the Patriot Missile system. The alternative would be the David’s Sling, Arrow (Israeli missile) or the Aster (missile family).
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July 4, 2016 at 12:23 pm
I used a used Patriot as an example, of course the Arrow ABM is the way to go if we wanted an ABM missile, and the land-based Barak 8 for a medium-range SAM
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July 4, 2016 at 4:16 pm
I would say Barak 8 but if you wanted a more reliable Land based SAM, go with the S-400 that Vietnam is in talks of getting from Russia.
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July 5, 2016 at 2:37 pm
I heard the Barak 8’s range will soon be extended to 120 km and given ABM capabilities so it seems like the way to go
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July 5, 2016 at 4:30 pm
So dose David’s slings
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July 2, 2016 at 10:10 am
Nick the Sea Ceptor fires from either the Mk41 or the SYLVER A30-70
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July 2, 2016 at 4:03 pm
Well, if you get the Sea ceptor, you would also have to get the CAMM (missile family) to work for the F/A-50 as well.
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July 3, 2016 at 10:31 am
Nick, I was actually thinking about Pythons and Derbys for the PAF and the CAMM for the PN
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July 3, 2016 at 3:25 pm
Their is the CAMM(A) is the air-launched variant of the missile. Since the CAMM airframe is based on that of ASRAAM, the current dogfighting missile of the RAF and other airforces, MBDA say that CAMM is “easily adapted” onto aircraft that now carry ASRAAM. There is no requirement to replace ASRAAM yet, but it is intended that CAMM will form the basis of the RAF’s future short-range missile. The modularity of CAMM would lend itself to a family of missiles like the Vympel R-27/AA-10 “Alamo”, which is carried in both radar-guided and infra-red versions by Russian planes.
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July 4, 2016 at 12:25 pm
I see, this could be interesting
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July 4, 2016 at 4:15 pm
CAMM has Air, Land and Maritime versions. One missile for every need.
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July 1, 2016 at 1:51 am
Look at Taiwan’s Cheng Kung-class frigate, they were the Mainstay Theater Air defense frigate before the KIDD class DDG’s came along. If Taiwan can use the Perry’s in Air defense role, then the Philippines as well. That’s why the Philippines needs a Viable Air defense system and getting the Perry’s would give the Philippines a viable Air defense frigate.
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July 1, 2016 at 10:53 am
Nick if you ask me we might as well pay 90 million USD for a hull and purchase an MF-STAR along with 32-48 VLS cells for the Barak 8 LR-SAM
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July 1, 2016 at 2:32 pm
Might as well because it would give the Philippines a Viable Area Air Defense frigate with AAW capability.
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July 1, 2016 at 1:56 am
Nick, I WILL write a blog about upgrading the Perry class frigate, the problem is, if the PN does get them, our politicos will not be willing to pay to arm them with VLS and SSM’s
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July 1, 2016 at 1:59 am
If they do, they can still use the old RIM-7 Sea Sparrow or the SM-1MR missile. Which would be enough to protect the Philippines Air space.
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July 1, 2016 at 2:27 am
Nick the mk13 launcher was removed, unless the USN has it in storage and reinstalls it for us while giving us surplus SM-1 SAM’s and Harpoons though it would probably cost money, I’d estimate we’d need to pay at least 100 mil bucks to ask the USN to reinstall the Mk13 and give us SM-1’s and RGM-184’s, but if it happens, then I’ll be happy as hell
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July 1, 2016 at 4:43 am
You can still do VLS using the Israeli Barak-1 Missile system. The Harpoons are getting old and the US is replacing them with LRSAM. You can even do VLS for RIM-7 Sea Sparrow as well in the same way as the Karl Doorman class frigate.
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July 1, 2016 at 2:28 am
Nick, the thing is, as I stated, these ships do not have the Mk13 launcher anymore, so perhaps if the USN has it in storage, we can pay it to have it reinstalled along with a package of SM-1 and RGM-184 missiles, if this is the case and the PN could get US help with maintenance, then I’d gladly accept a Perry for the PN
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July 2, 2016 at 1:42 am
I would say, if you can’t do the Mk-31 you can always scrap them and put Sea Ceptor VLS, Barak 1/8. I believe Israel and India are putting Barak 8 into their fleets.
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